The Republic

By -
Socrates and Plato: a medieval portrait
The Republic, by Plato

One of Plato's most famous works shows Socrates in an incredibly long dialogue with friends, the main one being Glaucon.  Together they discuss the nature of justice and plan out the ideal city-state, one ruled by philosopher-kings.  They also cover some other topics such as different forms of government, the theory of Forms, and the immortality of the soul.  "The Cave" is also part of the dialogue, as Socrates illustrates how men see the world and then how a philosopher sees truth.

This work has had an immense effect on Western civilization.  I find this rather worrying, since there was almost nothing in the whole book that I agreed with, not even the definition of what justice is.  I kept feeling like Kermit the Frog in The Great Muppet Caper:  "You know, that's amazing.  You are 100% wrong.  I mean, nothing you've said has been right."

After much discussion, Socrates and co. decide that justice consists of everyone doing what they are best suited to do, and minding their own business.  They then imagine an ideal city-state, and the cardinal rule is (essentially) that no one is going to be allowed to do anything wrong.  Of course they're the ones who decide what is wrong and right.  Philosophers will rule the state, since naturally they're the only people who can see truth.  Everyone else will be taught "noble lies" that will ensure compliance to the perfectly-ordered state.

In addition, it is clear to Socrates that "women and children will be held in common."  This seems to mean that marriages will be eugenically arranged by the government, not that promiscuity will reign.  The strongest men will deserve more wives, while unfit men may not marry.  Parents and children will not know each other; children will be raised in nurseries, and the mothers will nurse all of them in turn.  Thus everyone will treat each other like family and there won't be much strife.

After that we have a lot about types of government and Forms.  Meh.  And at the end there's a rather psychedelic description of eternity, and (as far as I could tell) a theory of reincarnation.

So: Socrates and Plato, you're 100% wrong.  I mean, nothing you've said has been right!


Wiser than Plato.




Comments

  1. AONovember 21, 2012 at 11:10 PM

    hi Jean! i love your thoughts on The Republic. they made me so curious that i grabbed a copy from Gutenberg and see what it's all about. :)

    ReplyDelete
  2. JeanNovember 22, 2012 at 7:19 AM

    Good luck Ao! Let me know what you think. I kept wondering how anyone could find it convincing.

    ReplyDelete
  3. AnonymousNovember 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM

    Most commentators don't find it convincing. In fact there is good evidence that Plato did not either. The Republic is a dialogue, not a straight-forward philosophical exposition. There is even great doubt that Socrates intended it as guide for government. There are many times where the results of this hypothetical city would denigrate or outright prohibit the actions of Socrates himself, and also many things that we know are important to Socrates. This suggests that there is some irony in his remarks, or that Socrates is using this exercise as a teaching device or heuristic for thinking about politics and government.

    Rather than thinking of this as a political tract, I think it is more profitable to think of it like a philosophical kind of novel. There are characters with interests and points of view. They interact and argue. There is agreement, conflict and sometimes compromise. But the interesting questions are not is Socrates right or wrong, but rather what is happening here? How are these characters relating to each other? What can we learn from this interaction? Emma Woodhouse is generally wrong about most things but that does not prevent us from finding Jane Austin's novel enjoyable, interesting and even teaching us something.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

I'd love to know what you think, so please comment!

Popular posts from this blog

The Four Ages of Poetry

By -
Image
  "The Four Ages of Poetry," by Thomas Love Peacock I am becoming fond of Thomas Love Peacock.  Besides his unbeatable name, he was a lot of fun.  Peacock was a minor literary figure of the early 19th century; he tried his hand at poetry but mainly succeeded in satire.  I read his short novel Nightmare Abbey last year, but at the time I didn't know that the young hero of the story, Scythrop, was modeled on Peacock's good friend Percy Shelley.  He and Shelley were quite close and Peacock was the executor of Shelley's will. Thomas Love Peacock Percy Bysshe Shelley "The Four Ages of Poetry," a tongue-in-cheek essay on the history and development of poetry, was published in 1820 in a new magazine called Literary Miscellany , which promptly died.  It would probably have been completely obscure and unknown--it nearly is anyway--but for Shelley.  Peacock sent a copy to his friend, who I guess didn't really have much of a sense of
Read more

A few short stories in Urdu

By -
Image
 Back in August, I got hold of a book of Urdu short stories translated into English.  It's a large book, so I wanted to read just the women authors for WIT, and that would still be a good amount.  August got away from me, and I only read one or two stories back then, but I've continued reading them since.  I've now finished all the short stories in the book that were written by women (luckily for me, there are short biographies in an appendix, since I could only tell from the name about half the time).  I'll just highlight a couple: "The Wagon," by Khalida Asghar, is a hallucinatory, apocalyptic story.  The narrator meets three strange men who are watching the evening sky and point out that it has become red.  No one had noticed until they said so, but the sky is now strangely red.  Then a smell arrives, so offensive and sickening that it causes real pain -- but only once it's pointed out.  And finally, a mysterious wagon, which may be the source of the s
Read more

Faerie Queen Readalong I: Redcrosse, the Knight of Holiness

By -
Image
I did it, I read all of Book I!  My minimum requirement was two cantos a day, but I managed three a couple of times.  I'm hoping to read ahead, because I'll be gone for two weeks in the middle of this event and I'd like to be able to prep a post ahead of time...but the schedule is already pretty demanding.  The reading is not terribly difficult, but it is slow.  I keep thinking that I've read a large chunk, only to look back and realize that in fact I have read six verses.  So here we go with analysis... Each book in the Faerie Queene features a knight, and a story, about a particular virtue.  The Redcrosse Knight, to be known as St. George after he accomplishes his feats, is all about Holinesse .  This does not mean that Redcrosse already exemplifies holiness; he doesn't.  Holiness is what he's working towards and struggling with.  His foes symbolize various forms of unholiness, and he falls into their clutches at least as often as he defeats or avoids th
Read more